Kentucky coach, NBA journeyman and NCAA National Champion Mark Pope joined Seth and Andy on The Hoops HQ Show Tuesday morning. Stream full episodes of the podcast on Hoops HQ’s YouTube channel, @hhqsports, or live on the Fubo Sports Network.
Seth Davis: We are very pleased to be joined by the head coach of the Kentucky Wildcats. Coach, I have to start with that video that went viral of you meeting your daughter at the airport…
Tell us that story briefly and what that experience was like for you.
Mark Pope: Well, it was a special family moment for sure. All of us that are blessed to have children, especially daughters — sons, whatever — but daughters are like magic and I’m blessed to have four of the most extraordinary human beings on the planet that are many versions of (my wife) Lee Anne in their own way with their own special talents and skills.
So Avery had been gone for almost a year and a half serving people in El Salvador and growing in her relationship with her faith and with Jesus and becoming an even more extraordinary person than she had. And we’re limited in contact with her. We only get to talk once a week — that’s part of the program. So it was a really special moment for us as a family. We’re really close. And so you spend all that time — a year and a half — feeling like you’re down a starter and it’s just magic to have her back.
It’s been really special. It was a really special night for us. And then we were blessed: Our other two daughters that don’t live here were able to fly in for the weekend and we got to spend some time together. There’s nothing better, man. There’s nothing better. If you start with family in your life — whatever that might look like for you — if you start there and finish there, then the rest of it is icing. I really believe that. It’s just the most important institution on this planet.
Andy Katz: Mark, I’m sure you saw what happened at Oklahoma State with BYU and Kevin Young. I covered BYU in the 90s. I saw it. I heard it. On the road, people get very negative about the Mormon faith and it should not be tolerated. The Big 12 came out and fined Oklahoma State…
I’m curious what your reaction was to that and what you had to deal with when you were the head coach at BYU.
Pope: Well, I don’t think you’re going to like either of my answers, but I kind of feel two ways. I really do.
I love all the craziness. I love all the craziness that surrounds sports. I love fan bases and I love how passionate they get. I love it. It’s probably unfortunate that we’re so much in personal and identity attacks. That’s probably unfortunate. But it just is, it comes with the territory. That’s what we do, right? So, you know, there’s a whole vibe on that where it’s like, maybe there are some lines that you wish we wouldn’t tread on, right? And they actually don’t mean anything. I think so often we just kind of choose the lowest hanging fruit to try and attack somebody for the sake of attacking and it’s just insanity.
On the flip side, I grew up in a time where sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt me. I think we’ve lost something there too. You know, I think there’s some real truth to that in the sense of, you know, I’d like for us to be protective and sensitive as a society and maybe more thoughtful with the things we say. But I’d also like to make us bully-proof where it’s like, you know what? You can say whatever you want to me. That actually doesn’t affect me at all. So I kind of have two different vibes on that. And I think in general, both of those ways to look at this are probably really important.
We should be more cognizant of what we say and not just be belligerent about saying things that have absolutely no meaning that none of us are going to be proud of saying. It actually is a poor representation of us as human beings. And also on the flip side, people can say whatever they want about me because I know where I came from and I know who I am.
Listen, I love Deion Sanders. I quote him all the time. This idea of you didn’t make me, so you can’t break me. You didn’t build me, so you can’t kill me. God established me. Those are true words, man. And I think that’s also an important part of this is understanding like, let’s be sensitive and cautious to what we say. And let’s also understand that we’re building great, in this case, great young men that words are not going to affect. I think both those things are important.
Oklahoma State Fined $50K for “Inappropriate Chants”
The incident took place during the Cowboys’ 99-92 win over the Cougars on Wednesday night. This was at least the fourth time in the past year that a BYU team has been the target of such derogatory remarks.
Seth: Let’s talk about the Cats. You’re playing better and this is my theory: You had this situation with Jaland Lowe — is he in, is he out? Jayden Quaintance — is he in or out? Kam Williams — is he done for the season? The best case scenario is that you have everybody healthy, but it seems to me that at least knowing who you have and taking away the uncertainty in your game planning, your practice, your repetitions, your mindset, it seems that things are more connected and consistent. Now we have more of a defensive identity and a lot more confidence…
Am I anywhere close to what’s happening in the locker room?
Pope: I would say emphatically yes, only because that’s all we have left. So we’re going to own it. I’m really proud of our guys. When you’re putting a team together and you’re preparing for a season and you’re strategizing about what are going to be your strengths and weaknesses and what are you going to look like and how are you going to attack and how are you going to win — we don’t look anything like we imagined, not at all.
This was not the plan. This was not the scheme. This was not how this was conceived at all. But that’s the beauty of a season. That’s the beauty of a journey. It’s adjusting and figuring things out and guys stepping up and guys maturing and guys leaning on each other. And I’ve said this a lot over the last several weeks, that we don’t look anything like what we plan to look like. We’re not doing this the traditional Kentucky way, this is probably not the traditional Kentucky season.
With all that said, I feel bad for you if you’re missing what’s happening here right now, cause it’s awesome. I love stories. I love redemption. I love overcoming and what these guys are doing right now. I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
I told them before the game against Tennessee. There was so much hype for us last Saturday because we had ‘96 in the house, we had denim in the house, it was a rival, it was the second game. We had had an epic comeback against them on the road. And I told the guys, there’s all this stuff floating around, but really, this is only about us. This is the story you guys are writing right now. And it’s a great story, man. I don’t want to put the book down. I’m loving every second of this. It’s not traditional, it’s different, but it’s pretty special. And I’m proud of our guys because they keep raising up and doing things that people don’t think they can do and shouldn’t be able to do. And it’s not the way we expected to do it. We’ve had to recreate everything, but it’s pretty cool.
Andy: You guys are the Comeback Cats — when you get down, no one gets discouraged…
What happens in those huddles when Kentucky is behind? Where does that faith come from?
Pope: You earn belief, and our guys have just found a way to do it. Our guys have endured a lot this season, and a lot of it being self — we put ourselves in holes too. It’s not like we’re victims. We’re not victims at all. But we’ve certainly endured a lot and I think our guys have got to a place where they look around the huddle and they’re like, we can do this.
They look around the huddle and say: Hey, I know what Otega is bringing right now. I know what Collin Chandler can do — I know he’s bringing everything every time. I know Malachi Moreno — I’m watching him grow before my eyes. Jasper Johnson is growing up — he’s not the same player he was two months ago. Mo Dioubate is gonna go save us in some non-traditional way by making some energy play that nobody else in the country can go make.
I think the guys are starting to understand each other and with this new look kind of identity that we have, I think guys are starting to believe. I think the guys have also been like, hey, there’s probably not a lot that’s going to happen in-game that hasn’t happened to us before and we’re not really scared of it. There’s probably a lot of things that people could say about us, but there’s nothing that they haven’t already said last week or the week before.
We know we can handle it. And so let’s go. And when you come out the other side of those difficulties, man, you come out different. I’m telling you, it’s super cool. And these guys have faith in each other.
Seth: We all know the external pressure that comes with coaching at Kentucky. You’re a guy who always wears your emotions on your sleeve — you’re transparent, not cunning. Maybe concerned is overstating it, Mark, but I was a little concerned for you and for the program that you were so transparent with your emotions.
Your former college coach, Rick Pitino, said to you, hey, you can’t show any weakness to the media. I’m just wondering if there’s something to be said for being honest and transparent and emotional.
Do you look back on your press conferences early in the season and say, man, that’s how I am and that’s how I’m gonna roll? Or do you say, I gotta learn to dial my emotions back?
Pope: Coach is so great. He’s the greatest. He’s become a great friend and an incredible mentor. But I’m also still terrified of him. He called me after Michigan State and he was so pissed, man. He was just like, what are you doing? And I love him for it. I think it’s both, Seth. It’s always both, right? One, listen. As a leader of an organization, it’s important that you exude confidence in everything you do. That’s important. I’ve never seen anything like this, this media circus that is relentlessly Kentucky basketball.
So sometimes, there’s a part of a story that gets cherry picked and hyper focused on, and there’s not a lot of effort in telling the whole story. It’s just, what’s the story that’s gonna sell right now? Which is, that’s exactly what it’s supposed to be. There’s no animosity in that. And so in that sense, being a governor of the messaging that’s coming from Kentucky is really important. That’s really, really important. And that’s something that I’m gonna grow into as we do this job.
It’s very important. It’s important for our team. It’s important for our fan base. It’s important for the basketball world as a whole because Kentucky is — I’m sorry I’m saying this — Kentucky is the basketball story in college basketball. It just is, right? Whether we’re good or bad, it’s the story.
And so I have some responsibility to continue to grow into the job, doing a better job, putting out the concise messaging that needs to come from here. The flip side is that I’ll always own it. I want my players to own it. I want everybody in this organization to own it. And the only way you get there is by owning it yourself. And that’s really painful. It’s hard. You don’t want to. You want to blame everybody else in the world. The second that you do that, the second you place blame somewhere else, that is actually inferring to yourself that you don’t have the power to change it.
I never want my guys to feel that way ever. So that process of embracing the pain of ownership is actually a self-protective mechanism that allows you to be like, hey, because this is my fault, that inherently means that I can actually affect change. So you take on the pain originally, but then you still have the power to change it. I want my guys to know it. I want them to feel it. I want them to believe it. And they do.
And so actually sometimes you go through the miserable process of it, but the only way you get out the other side with your guys feeling like, hey, things are going wrong, but I can actually change the flow of how this game is going, is if they see it every single day in their organization and that’s a win. So again, both things are true. I can do way better with the messaging. I can understand how things are kind of cherry picked and do better there, but I’ll never give up my guys’ ownership of their situation, ever.
Mark Pope Says One Team Was ‘Really Poorly Coached’ in the Kentucky-Michigan State Game. It Was His.
The Wildcats have work to do after getting blown out by Michigan State 84-67 in the Champions Classic
What must go well for Kentucky to beat Florida on Saturday?
Mark: That’s a long list, it’s a long list. There’s a lot of things that have got to go well for us. This Florida team is really good. They’re veteran, they’re experienced, their leadership comes — it’s almost like their leadership and their size are one in the same. They’ve just been so dominant physically, on the glass, in the paint, with their pace.
Todd (Golden) does an unbelievable job. It’s a road game in the SEC, which, it doesn’t matter if you’re playing the best team or the worst team in the SEC. It takes a miracle to win on the road, and that’s why it’s such a fun league. So it’s all that. We had a real debacle at Vanderbilt recently where there were 100 things that went wrong. But since then, it’s been a mantra of ours that we’re gonna rise to the physicality of the occasion. There’s no test probably in our league more significant than Florida in terms of the physicality of standing up and owning some space and engaging in the fight.
You know Rueben Chinyelu is a special player. I got a ton of respect for this kid, man. I don’t know anything about him as a human being, except what you can read and how he plays and the physicality and versatility that he brings — especially on the defensive end of their team — is unbelievable. And you know, they have incredibly skilled and talented players up and down, all around, including (Thomas) Haugh, who, if he’s not the best player in this league, he’s definitely one of the best — I think I might have the best player in the league on my team.
But they’re a great team, they’re defending the national championship. The place will be rocking, they’re gonna bring all the physicality and we’re gonna have to stand up and try and deal with it.
Seth: All right, Mark, before we let you go, you haven’t ticked off enough people this season, so I want to ask you this…
Give me your all-time starting five for Kentucky basketball — besides Mark Pope.
Pope: Man. You’re asking me the impossible question. Well, I was just going to say, of course, it’s always just me. You know, listen, you’re not going to like my answer, but I’m going to give you two answers. One of the beautiful things about this program is having the right guys at the right time.
So you take a guy out of their generation or out of their team concept or out of their coach-player relationship, and they’re just different. It’s not a standalone for me. And this is not deflecting. I’ll get off my high horse in two seconds, but when we get away from this, from embracing the power of a team, and the fact that that’s how individuals are elevated, I just think we miss the beauty of the game. And so I know it’s not fun media-wise, because we want to debate about this guy or that guy, but I’m a true believer, man. We’ve been blessed to have a lot of the greatest teams that have ever played this game here. And when you take those teams apart, I just don’t think they’re the same. I don’t think the individuals are the same without the team.
Now if you ask me the top five media guys, clearly, Seth Davis and Andy Katz are in the top five all time. Clearly.
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